Topic #1: Avoiding & Getting Out Of Ruts
K. Deep
Can you take us back to when you were arrested for smoking weed near your dorm building?
What was your mindset back then that strayed you from your goal of avoiding the unfulfilling conventional path?
And what do you think would have helped you avoid that situation?
Dan Koe
I’m not sure if that situation was avoidable. My mindset was very similar to what it is now.
I was arguably more disciplined then than I am now.
I would wake up at 5am, stretch while my dormmate was asleep, walk to the gym to do 40 minutes of cardio, shower, go to class, study after, and try to build my YouTube fitness brand on my breaks. I was in the best shape I had ever been than any time before that.
There was a time sophomore year that I fell off track.
I would wake up late, drive to McDonalds for breakfast, feel like shit after, and skip class to play video games and binge watch The Office during the day. Frozen burritos were my snacks in between episodes.
I believe this happened because I stopped making progress. I got bored. My gym progress slowed down. I lost clarity on my photography side hustle. And I didn’t like the classes I was taking.
In this case, my advice would be to experiment.
Keep the big goal of staying in shape, but set a new goal that you can see quick progress at.
Instead of bodybuilding, try olympic lifting or running. Study everything related to those and let novelty make your brain light up to the point of obsession.
For a side hustle, experiment with a new business model that allows you to utilize your past skills. Instead of photography, experiment with graphic design.
Give yourself something that allows you to continue progress without much of a setback.
This isn’t shiny object syndrome, this is experimentation until you discover what you want to commit to.
K. Deep
Love it. Back then, were there any steps and strategies that helped you get out of that situation/rut and get back on track, besides consistent experimentation?
Dan Koe
This may not be the most practical strategy – but you can find a ton of those online.
Whenever I became aware that I was in a rut, I would read or listen to some form of spiritual, philosophical, or metaphysical book or lecture.
By its nature, it put me in a big picture thinking mindset. It would open my mind to see beyond my small problems so I could start to piece together a solution.
At night, I would fall asleep to Alan Watts lectures.
I don’t remember much about how these helped me get out, but I remember how enjoyable my life was during those times. Many of my worries seemed to lose their weight.
When I got arrested, I didn’t think much of it at the time, but I got a letter in the mail that summer from the court.
It gave me the option to enter a drug aversion program or get charged with a felony.
That freaked me out. I was only 19 at the time.
That’s when I first picked up The Power Of Now and it helped me through that time. It’s an introductory book, but I can say with confidence I wouldn’t be on this path without it.
Topic #2: Finding Motivation During Difficult Times
K. Deep
Love it man. I never thought about it, but that’s what helped me as well (when I was going through a phase of self-hatred and helplessness). For me, it was Leo Gura and The Power Of Now.
Going back to your life being the most enjoyable during those times…
Roughly 3 months ago you wrote a note to yourself about not being able to find joy in life anymore.
I know it’s one of the most difficult times to motivate oneself to work. Yet, during the same time, you were in the middle of launching your book, Art of Focus, and Kortex University… both of which you successfully launched.
How did you motivate yourself to keep the work going?
Dan Koe
That was a weird scenario.
By “not finding joy in life” I mean everything feeling normal and bland. Nothing felt new, novel, or childlike.
It wasn’t about motivation, it wasn’t even about discipline, I believe at this point it’s just who I am. It’s an automatic habit to constantly be looking for the next way to push forward and make sure I survive.
Writing the book was extremely enjoyable because I was forced to learn and synthesize new information.
Launching the book didn’t require anything new to be learned. I’ve done that many times. Same with Kortex. Once the ideation and discovery process was done, launching is just normal and second nature.
What fixed the lack of enjoyment was shifting my focus on something else that needed more progress.
I pushed harder in my fitness and relationships which forced me to learn new things to maintain progress.
K. Deep
That’s quite interesting.
How did you become the person who always loves pushing forward and harder? Cause as much as most people love the outcomes, they struggle to become that person. They still hate consistently pushing forward and harder.
Dan Koe
There have been obvious lows in my journey where I fall off for a bit (as all people do), but there’s always been a nagging voice in the back of my head. It was a mean voice.
“You’re going to work at this job forever.”
I didn’t like that, so I started learning and building.
“You’re going to look soft and pudgy.”
So I obsessed over fitness and nutrition.
“You’re going to end up alone.”
So I tried to become a person people want to be around.
This sounds terrible to many people, but it was just a voice. My life wasn’t terrible because of it.
Some people allow that voice to consume them. Others treat it as the devil on their shoulder and push away from it as far as they can.
Everyone has those negative thoughts. They never go away. So, the only logical option is to perceive them in a manner conducive to a better life.
K. Deep
“Everyone has those negative thoughts. They never go away.”
Love this man. I too find it quite helpful when I stop seeing them as voices I need to get rid of… and instead use them as motivators.
On the topic of pushing forward and harder, I remember a tweet from Alex Hormozi:
You’ve already achieved goals you said would make you happy.
What do you think of that in context of always pushing forward and harder?
Dan Koe
I talk about entropy a lot.
I don’t think there is ever a time where you just stop making progress and chill out for the rest of your life.
You are either growing or dying. No inbetween. It’s okay if you lose progress sometimes, but that can spiral down fast unless you attempt to reverse it.
Now, I don’t think it’s about pursuing the reward that comes from the goal.
The goal is just a mountain top out of infinite. You’ll be disappointed if you think that goal was “the end.”
It’s about living in alignment with nature or the universe.
By all accounts, that’s what makes us happy. Growing, expanding, evolving, and transcending. Achieving a goal is just a mark for the level or stage of evolution.
You become happy when you allow yourself to flow with reality.
Stopping after achieving a goal is like an animal that stops hunting for food. You will die.
Topic #3: Overcoming Clouds Of Negative Thoughts
K. Deep
Love it. Definitely gonna have to sit with this one for a while.
Going back to your book launch. You scraped 2 drafts over 3 years before you came up with the incredible book we have now. During that time, you gave up for 6 months at a time.
What were you feeling when the outcomes fell short, and how did you overcome those feelings to start again?
Dan Koe
I felt like I didn’t know enough, and new words weren’t just going to spring into my mind.
I needed a bit more knowledge and experience to write the book I wanted to read, so I just stopped writing it.
I had the intention to continue, so I still wrote down ideas throughout that time. The book was a very long term project, so I wasn’t in much of a rush. I knew I would come back to it.
K. Deep
That’s an interesting approach man… to accept the situation instead of spiralling into self doubt.
And that’s one great thing I have observed in you… you have the ability to see things for what they are (be it with entropy or negative thoughts or anything else).
Do you have certain mental steps that help you see things for what they are or does it come from practice and reading/listening to books/lectures a lot?
Dan Koe
I haven’t really dissected what led to it, but I’m assuming it’s the byproduct of failing fast and often.
So many people are afraid of failure. I was too. But at some point you have to go ahead an fail.
You have to get over that first failure, because what’s the other option? Never achieving what you want? Isn’t that the true failure?
I’d rather fail a billion times to get what I want rather than realize on my death bed that I’ve failed to do anything worthwhile in life.
Once you do, you realize that your fears were irrational, and once you fail enough it just becomes second nature to “not care” about the outcome anymore. And I’m assuming you’ve made quite a bit of progress despite those failures.
Reading and listening to good information definitely helps you make sense of those situations as they come through.
Topic #4: The High Achiever’s Routine
K. Deep
Love it man
Shifting the gears a little…
With the launch of Kortex, You have moved from being a solopreneur to having an amazing team to manage. Even your projects have grown. What does your routine look like now to stay disciplined and productive?
Dan Koe
My routine hasn’t changed much honestly… probably because I’m fighting the change and want to maintain my writing habit.
I’ve of course had days where I work a lot more to build the product initially, but that calms down when once it’s built.
In solopreneurship, you win back time with technology, otherwise you buy it back with a team. My work (content and writing) is the fuel for Kortex, so my role hasn’t changed much.
I wake up around 6, do 20-30 minutes of cardio or a walk, write for 1-2 hours, eat, catch up on messages and emails, write more, hit the gym, and then I’m technically done for the day but I’ll work on little things here and there.
In terms of prioritizing time, I feel like people focus on the wrong things.
In the creator business, you need content and an offer.
Those come along with many things, but if your day isn’t only comprised of doing and improving those you are probably wasting a lot of your time… and that can be done in 2-4 hours a day.
About Dan Koe
Dan Koe is an author, creator, and entrepreneur.
He is famous for his animations, modern-day philosophy, and $4.2 million online creator business. Most recently, he has launched his first book, The Art of Focus, and Kortex University, where he shares his frameworks to build an online one-person business.
More than anything else, he has been the greatest influence in my life. Without his insights and help, I would have never been able to build my online business. I appreciate him a lot for being my first guest and sharing his great insights with you.
Dan on X: twitter.com/thedankoe
Dan on IG: instagram.com/thedankoe
The Art Of Focus: theartoffocusbook.com
Kortex University: university.kortex.co
